S2 EP3. Rising from the Ashes: Nikki LaCroce's Journey of Surviving Abuse and Loss

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The following episode deals with domestic violence in sometimes strong language. Listener discretion is advised. A decade, it's a long time. But when you're in a domestic abuse relationship, it can seem even longer. Then a global pandemic comes and takes away your mother. You feel like your life is over. But what happens when you decide

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to stand up and take your life back, you become the voice of the voiceless, and you offer a place where people can come and tell you their story to aid to the healing. Join me as I talk with podcaster and extraordinary person, Nikki LaCroche, on this episode of True Crime, Authors and Extraordinary People.

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Welcome to True Crime, Authors and Extraordinary People, the podcast where we bring two passions together. The show that gives new meaning to the old adage, truth is stranger than fiction. And reminding you that there is an extraordinary person in all of us. Here is your host, David McClam. What's going on everybody? Welcome to another episode of True Crime, Authors and Extraordinary People. Of course, I'm your man.

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David McClam, hope you guys haven't already. Make sure you're following us on all of our social medias. One link to a link tree gets you everywhere you need to go pertaining to the show. Well, as you probably guessed it, it is time for another extraordinary person and boy, do I have one for you today. Let me tell you who our guest is. In early 2021, she experienced what she now refers to as her personal Armageddon as she left a decade long abusive relationship

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and simultaneously was faced with the unexpected loss of her mother amidst the peak of the pandemic. Navigating these events and being forced to cope with two very different types of grief at once, her perspective on mental health, personal growth, and healing through trauma shifted drastically. She has always felt strongly about the importance of human connection and thanks to a tremendous amount of support from her family, friends, and therapists,

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She made the decision to return to the mic to share her own story in May of 2022. In 2019, she created and became the host of the Who the Fuck Podcast, which is a podcast designed to create connection through vulnerable conversations about the power of the human spirit. She is the host of Who the Fuck Podcast, an extraordinary person, please welcome Nikki LaCroche. Nikki, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much, David. And what a wonderful introduction. It's so different to be on this side of that. It's nice to hear. It always says like driving a car, right? You're already used to driving your car until you actually have to sit in the passenger side and you see what it feels like. Yeah. That's a good analogy. So with all that being said, Nikki, I'm honored to have you here. Is there anything about you before we begin that we should know that was not covering your introduction? I would say that, um, whatever I'm going to share related to that.

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personal Armageddon, I feel very lucky that I am on the other side of it. I have since remarried and met just the most beautiful human and soul that I could imagine having as a partner. And so that was really instrumental in getting to where I am now and would be remiss if I didn't add that in. So I know some conversations we had off air, you know, you've been in a very abusive relationship.

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I'm glad to hear that you remarried because those of us that's been through these things, sometimes we tend to shy away from that. Even if we do find a person that is genuine in their feelings for us because of what we've been through, we close off. Can you tell us a little bit about what your abusive relationship was like and how you end up surviving that? Yeah. So it was very psychologically abusive.

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then there was ultimately a physical act of violence that left me no room to debate if I needed to leave the situation. So I'll kind of start where the bulk of the story lands. But to just preface that briefly, I'll say I met my ex when I was 23 and she was 31. We met at a concert, an Adele concert, and it was before Adele was huge. So it was a really small venue in

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I was there with a friend of mine, she was there with her ex that she was living with. And so I feel like our just introduction sort of was weird. And I established it in my head as a very romantic meet cute that how unlikely is it that I would meet this person at this type of event and then we would just click and then we would, you know, date and get to know each other and marry each other. And I idealized that that meeting a lot because

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That was sort of the onset of online dating. It wasn't really what it is now by any means. It was still like, if you were on match.com, you were on the dot com on your computer emailing people. And so I thought it was really kind of miraculous that I was meeting somebody in person. And what I failed to really acknowledge early on was the fact that I had placed myself in the middle of this relationship with her and her ex. Unwittingly, I asked if there was anything still going on with them. She said no. Then about...

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like nine months or so into our dating, she cheated on me with her ex. And I had said to her prior to that, like, if anybody ever cheated on me, I wouldn't be with them. And I think that that was sort of the first trauma bond. And I didn't understand that. I was still very naive. I did not have any understanding of narcissistic abuse whatsoever. And didn't really gain that until I was very far down the path and exiting the situation. And so the thing that

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I look back on quite a bit is how the gas lighting started really early on, but I didn't have the words for it. I didn't have the psychological knowledge of gas lighting. It certainly wasn't as mainstream of a discussion as it is today. And so there were always these little pieces of things that didn't make sense. Asking how many drinks she had and clearly she had at least three, but she's saying one. And then she's more drunk than she should be and that's not justifiable. And I, you know, trying to piece these little things together.

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and noticing substance abuse issues, but particularly with alcohol. And I was in my early 20s still. So for me, part of that was like, okay, this person drinks more than I do. But then it was, you know, you're hiding these things with your ex. And then after this cheating situation happened, and I said I didn't wanna be with her, she stayed at my apartment for like a month afterwards. She had a contract job as a behavioral specialist. The irony is not lost on me, that that was the role that she had as a profession, but she was essentially...

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educated to understand human behavior and therefore was able to also use it in a really insidious way. We had a very toxic relationship. It's hard to look back on it now a little bit, David, and not think, God, what was I doing? You know, like there are these moments that are just like so obviously not good. And I was just so desperate to have this romantic connection to.

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somebody loved me the way that I loved them and not really asking myself what that really looked like for me to be loved the way that I needed to be loved or to be in a relationship with somebody that felt safe. I constantly sort of felt the threat of this person will leave or if I felt like I was going to leave then she kind of pulled me back in and so it was this really unhealthy tension for a long time leading into even our marriage and

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I ask myself pretty often, like, why did I even propose when I know how tense it was? And it just gets back to that lack of sense of self, that lack of self-love and the inability to recognize, you know, these behaviors that somebody else is exhibiting as abusive because I was really blinded by the fact that my perceived emotional connection was really what I was riding on. And I saw what she did as a living, a behavioral specialist for children with autism as this

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very philanthropic thing. And I anchored on that as like, you have this quality that would make you do this for a living and therefore that means you're a good person. And it's like, really? That's what we did, you know? And it's like, it felt like in retrospect, such a naive and kind of willfully naive expectation that I created. And then as things progressed along and we had been married,

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You know, she was somebody who didn't keep a lot of friends constantly, you know, speaking to me about how I would make her uncomfortable by bringing her into social situations, et cetera. And so, while I think a lot of people get isolated by people in their life when it's abusive, it's very overt. Mine wasn't. It wasn't like I was kept inside. I was not kept away from people.

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The way that she kept me away from people was by not wanting to do things and then therefore I would either go do them by myself so I would do them less or I wouldn't go at all because she wouldn't go and it was kind of a thing where couples were going and I didn't feel like having to explain it or justify her absence or whatever it was. And so I think for a long time that abuse was, I think looking back on it, it would have been hard to categorize it as psychological abuse because I just.

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think it was kind of happening the whole time. And I was just so unaware of what I should have been looking for or understanding about the circumstances. And when it really tipped into the deep end was March, 2019. Now there had been many scenarios that had occurred prior, but it would just be an exhaustive list. At one point when I had made the decision to leave in January, 2021, I flew back to the East coast to stay with my sister.

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I had written a four page long single space list of the things that I thought about that stayed with me from being traumatized from this relationship and shared it with her and said, this is the stuff that like, I'm not allowed to talk about that you refuse to have discussions with me about in therapy, outside of therapy, whatever. And so it really gave me a sense of clarity when I listed that out. That's a lot of shit, even for like a decade, you know? And so

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It felt like every year something would happen, something traumatic and it became more and more traumatic. And so in March of 2019, we had gone out for dinner with a friend of mine and her friends and my ex was just being really kind of dodgy the whole night, like kept kind of stepping out, stepping back in and I was like, okay, what's going on? She had claimed that she had started to get migraines about a year earlier. I don't know much about them. I don't know much about the symptoms. I also don't know much about the.

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the way that people hide substance abuse issues. Or historically, I didn't. And so in those circumstances, I'm looking at her going, okay, are you all right? You seem like you've got a migraine. Do you need to step outside and get some fresh air? And so she goes out on her own and I don't think much about it, but I just have this really intense gut feeling and I'm super unsettled and I text her and then I get a text back and it was a typo, but I clearly recognize something's wrong.

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And so I walk outside, I start going the opposite direction of the way that I should go, and then I sprint back across the entry of the restaurant bar where we were, and I turn and see down this little alleyway between the bar where we were and this other building, on a very busy street, by the way, that she's laying in the alleyway, pants completely off, fully exposed, I can see everything, and just panicked. I mean, honestly, she looked like she had been raped.

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ran down to try to help her. There was like a very like small pocket knife sort of jammed into her sweatshirt but not into her arm or anything. Like my entire world changed in that moment. It was like, I don't think I ever imagined being in a scenario like that. I don't think I ever imagined having to process a scenario like that. And so she's trying to, I guess, explain to me what happened because I understand fundamentally how trauma can sort of change your

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Perception of events and things like that. I'm trying to gather the information. I'm telling her we need to call the police She's telling me not to Prior to this told me that she had been assaulted before told me she'd been raped before multiple times when she was in college and so The thing that was really scary was right before this actually this is sorry This is an important piece of context right before this happened about maybe a month prior We'd started going to couples therapy because I was saying I'm starting to feel resentful about how bad your migraines are and that they're affecting

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my ability to live my life and us to have a healthy life. In that session, she brought up that she wasn't sure if some sort of sexual assault had happened when we were together, and that just threw me for a loop because it had never, ever come up before, and so I was really confused. And so the fact that this instance happened after that was perplexing to me because what came up in that conversation with the therapist was, would I stay if something had happened while we were together? And I was like, I mean, I can't.

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really say, like I assume I would, you know, I just don't know. I don't know how I would handle that. And so the fact that this event played out after the fact was very unsettling for a number of reasons. And so when that happened, we were getting questioned by the police. They were very much victim blaming. Honestly, it was like, well, how much did you drink and etc. And I was just like, I can't believe this is happening right now. End up going home. I'm very much truncating the story for the purposes of just trying not to chew up all the time here.

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end up going home, I'm witnessing sort of the aftermath of what I believe is a sexual assault. The thing that I kept coming back to though, was that when she walked out of the alleyway and had been insistent on not calling cops, she threw something into the bush. And I'm like, okay, what was that? Like she would always keep like mints and stuff in her pocket, retrospect. She probably kept mints in her pocket because she was keeping pills in her pockets because she was hiding a very substantial drug addiction that I would only come to find out later in.

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like probably about a year or so later, and then even more so after the fact. So it was this very sort of slow but intense, like as it was happening unraveling. So it was like little bits and pieces trickle in, and then all of a sudden this was like the most monumental, most traumatic thing I'd ever experienced in my life. And so when that happened, I made the decision to really.

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learn about sexual assault, learn about sexual assault survivors, try to make a difference. I joined the board of a nonprofit for survivors of domestic abuse that my friends had run for about 10 years called Runway to Freedom. I was actively hearing these stories, engaged in the community, trying to help make change and trying to help my spouse in the process adjust, heal, process whatever she needed. And the thing is, is that it always came back to, I feel like I have a

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you know, just always happening to me. And the person that I am is, I do not want a victim blame or shame. I also don't think that it's healthy to sustain a victim mentality because you get trapped in your own cycles. And so I think it really opened my eyes to the reality of circumstances that are happening that I had never imagined experiencing, but then also the responsibility that we have for finding our own path towards healing.

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I'm like you, I never victim blame or shame. I'm that kind of person though, that if something needs to be said, you got to say it. I don't know if you ever found out if she truly was suffering from them, but I do live with a chronic migraine person, my wife, and I can tell you I've had to go with her to doctors to fight that fight for her because when she gets one, it's so debilitating, she looks high. So if you didn't know her, it like she just came off of smoking an eight ball or whatever she was doing.

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And then you take her to the doctor and say, she goes, I'm really suffering from this. Well, as you probably know by now, they give you drugs that sometimes is four times stronger than heroin. But she's yeah, they do. So the narcotics, if you ever go to a true pain management facility and they treat you for that, they're telling you, I can't retreat you again for a week because of the laws that mandate since it's so strong and you have to sign this paper that you're not selling it or trying to get it for other means.

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And I've actually had to have fights because they've actually called my wife an addict because she's had them for so long that the drugs they're given her didn't touch it. And so they, they accused us of selling it. Then, Oh, you just here to get the drugs. You could turn around and sell them to make money. So if she was getting it from that means I'm shocked too. It means the doctors are doing their job because I know the limitations they put on that just so a person can't or don't get addicted to it. Well, it's interesting because I, if she was getting any sort of medication for pain relief related to migraines that,

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was to that extent, which based on what I was witnessing, as far as the symptoms were, it was like 18 hours a day throwing up. It was like very just like, she did look high to your point. Now, in retrospect, sometimes she was. So like that one's a hard thing to suss out. And I think that that's honestly one of the most challenging parts of the process and still is in just talking about it today. I'm reminded of like that cognitive dissonance because

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much like you, like I'm a fierce advocate for somebody if I care about them. And so I was, you know, with the police, I was like, you don't understand, like, this is what's happening. You know, but they're asking what medications are she on? And, you know, I'm trying to give them details. And yes, she was on antidepressants and Xanax and things like that, because she would have panic attacks. And so, or allegedly had panic attacks, because I also never witnessed them. And so I'm not saying that

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You always do, but I think there were so many gaps in the stories, David, that it's like, while it was happening, I was so able to say, yes, that's clearly what you're experiencing. You're telling me this, I'm witnessing this symptom or this result, so that must be what's happening. But that night that I found her in the alley and then thinking about this situation the next day, I ended up calling my best friend and I'm telling her about this and I'm obviously in shreds over it. And I'm saying,

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but some of it doesn't make sense to me. And I had this sinking feeling of, I don't want to not believe her because that's messed up. Um, but also it would be even more messed up if somebody were lying about that and allowing you to think that that happened. And so I still have no idea what happened that night.

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I still have no idea what happened a lot of the nights that I was lied to about things. Because from that point forward, a couple of months later, she had dental surgery, ended up having a seizure in my arms at home, saying that she was, like they had given her too much fentanyl as like a, is it an anesthetic, I guess? No, fentanyl is not an anesthetic. It's actually a pain patch reliever.

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Well, so, okay, they weren't giving her a patch. She told me that, okay, this is just absolutely ridiculous. I almost feel stupid at explaining it. But basically she was saying that they were giving her fentanyl as like a way to try to like help put her under because she couldn't go under with normal anesthetic. Honestly, none of it makes sense in my brain at all now. But the idea is that she's telling me that the dentist basically could have OD'd her on fentanyl through injections or whatever. I'm like, that doesn't, I'm like, you would have absolutely died. But at the time,

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Again, I didn't have the information that I have now understanding how that would have worked out. And so she's basically telling me that this dentist committed malpractice and I'm like, well, then we need to sue them. This is insane. You know, and it's like, no, but then drop that, right? Like don't call the police about this.

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alleged sexual assault, don't call the police about this alleged malpractice that could have killed me. I had a seizure in your arms and you thought I might die. Her face was turning blue. I caught her. It was like all this terrifying stuff's happening within a two-month period. And during that time, she also crashed within a year-ish period, crashed and totaled three of my cars, once under something that got charged as a DUI.

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I fought for that being like, it's the Xanax. She's on Xanax. She's prescribed Xanax. And they're like, that doesn't matter. She can't drive if that's the effect it's having on her. I'm like, okay. And then, so these lies just are really building, but I'm still in this mode of like being deeply traumatized by this first event, that everything that I'm doing after the fact is really running off of the anxiety and the hypervigilance to make sure that she's safe. And because

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I needed her to be safe for me to be safe. Like that's what in retrospect I understand to be true, is that my need for her to be okay was largely rooted in my need for me to be able to function and survive. And so if I could justify or validate the things that she was doing or experiencing through the lens of mental health, then I could make peace with it. Whether or not that was true, didn't really come to a head until these three.

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car accidents had happened and I was like, I'm putting a dash cam in my car, what the hell? And she tells me that she gets in this accident one night. I look at the dash cam footage genuinely because the story she was telling me didn't make sense. I end up seeing a variety of different scenarios occurring, calling somebody very clearly talking about picking up drugs, going to a homeless encampment.

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picking up somebody or multiple people in my car, hearing, because you're not seeing it all in the dash cam, you're hearing it because it didn't face inward, hearing her have this exchange with this guy who's obviously dealing drugs, pulling in front of this sketchy motor home, coming in and out with stuff, and then having a full-blown discussion about the fact that this guy has heroin, has she ever done heroin, and then smoking heroin in my car.

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while a cop car drives by. Wow. And then tells me that she doesn't remember any of it because she's dissociative.

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So much naivete, so much naivete. I was like, because I understood how trauma can impact people, I was like, I understand if you're dissociative in certain scenarios, but what you're showing me right now is that you actively are lying to me. Like I'm witnessing what's happening here and you're flat out denying it. And so when that happened, I made the choice to leave.

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to go visit my family, stay with them during the midst of the pandemic. Because I was like, I can't stay here, this is nuts. Like I'm just so far beyond what my threshold is. Because after that happened, the next 10 days she was going through this extreme withdrawal and telling me that that was the only time she'd ever done heroin. And my best friend from my hometown, her sister has dealt with a heroin addiction for as long as I can remember. And she was like, Nikki, you don't have that kind of withdrawal when you do it once.

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I think I was just still so in shock and frustrated and disappointed in myself for not trusting my gut sooner that it took really the combination of all of these scenarios. And again, I'm kind of glossing over things like I had the four pages of things written out right. And so it was like money was missing. There was no explanation for it. She'd say that she was going to pay for doctors bills, but then there's no invoices. And then I look at my

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bank statements and she's changed the name of like, like the debit. So if I go in and look at like the actual transaction, I can see what it is, but she's writing out that, oh, these were doctor's appointments I was going to. So it was like, the cracks just started to show everywhere. And once I could put it all together, it was like, my entire life wasn't real. So here's a question that I know from listening to this, the audience is gonna have, I wanna remind the audience that you were in your 20s. We're in our 20s.

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Well, that was actually, so I will say I was in my thirties when that unfolded. Well, you've already been with her since the early twenties. So the damage, well, of the course I'm going to ask has already been done. Your relationship kind of began on a lie when she told you that she was done with the current girlfriend that she had. Was there any red flag then when you thought about this several years later saying this was the biggest red flag I should have listened to and probably not even dealt with her at that point? Yeah, but you know what? That.

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weirdly wasn't the biggest red flag, or I should say wasn't the first. I didn't realize that she actually was gaslighting me after our first date because we had a discussion about how I didn't wanna have kids ever. And she said also that she didn't wanna have kids. And every conversation that we ever had thereafter, she insisted that she never would have said that because she always wanted kids. I kind of brushed that off.

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And I was like, well, if I want to be with this person, I can be with, I could have kids with somebody if I feel like they'd be a good parent and, you know, look at what she does for work. She would be a great parent. Okay, but like, look at who she is as a human. No, don't let that happen. And so it's one of those things where she held a lot of weight in that early on that kind of made me feel like if I said no to children, then she would leave. And

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towards the end of things, I actually agreed to adopt with her. And my family was like, we never would have let that happen. I'm like, I don't know why I said it. I was like, what was I thinking? I knew this was a bad idea. There was no scenario in which I actually believed that would happen, if I'm being honest. But I think it just really goes to show that cognitive dissonance and that level of delusion that I was living in. Because as I was preparing for this conversation, I needed to kind of go back and look at some things that I had written and just think about what state was I in.

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I would write things about how I knew it wasn't okay. Like the circumstance wasn't okay, I wasn't okay. And then in the same breath, I would be writing about how this relationship is good and it can be this and it can be that. And it's like the hardest thing with psychological abuse as I'm sure you're aware is like, you can't prove it, right? Like there's no like definitive way to be like, that's obviously psychological abuse. Here's the check marks and this is what we show somebody to prove that that's what it is.

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because people lie and that is a form of abuse. And so I think what I really was challenged with was looking back at all of these moments where it was like, I saw it that year and I saw it that year and I saw it that year and I saw it that year every year, at least once a year for over a decade. And it took the collision of all of those things I described plus the ones I didn't mention in tandem with losing my mom.

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and having her come out for the services, even though I'd already said I wanted to end things because I felt like I needed the support and not being able to even get that in those moments that I was like, fuck this, I'm done. Like I can't, this is insane to me. How can you just not show up once? And so I think, you know, the red flags, the analogy that I give is, you know, those agility courses where dogs like run through all of those red flags, that's what it was like.

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I was just like, it's fine, we're gonna get through it, guys, we're good, don't worry about it. And it's like, okay, there was no reward at the end. It was a massive amount of regret and shame that comes with it, but I do think that, you know, you had mentioned at the beginning when I said I'm very happy with my partner now and just what a good human she is, it's like, because from the very beginning there was zero, zero doubt that she was being honest with me.

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and that I could feel safe there. And so I think when you've gone through something that is so detrimental to your ability to trust, understanding the core of who you are, and you've done the work to heal enough through that, and you do meet somebody that you can trust, that there is a tremendous sense of gratitude for that, very certain understanding of where your boundaries are. So I think it was probably very questionable to a lot of people in my life how rapidly that happened.

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But once they saw the dynamic that I have with my wife now, if there's even a comparison to be made, look at that in relation to where I was previously, it's like no questions asked. Like I've made better decisions and there's no concern that that could be anything like what was. And I think being, you know, I met my ex in 2009, so like almost 15 years ago, being in such a different place in my life, seeing how I...

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could have made different choices, it's sort of like this just realization that we have to trust ourselves and we have to believe what we're feeling more than we might allow ourselves in certain situations, just sort of based on what we want other people to see or feel or experience. And I think it's always about anchoring to what feels true to you. And, you know, obviously sometimes you have to discuss those things and maybe there's different parts of the story, but I think...

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More often than not, that gut feeling we have is telling us something we need to know. And I will say, because in my own personal life, I've been married and divorced several times because of the abuse that I suffered from my father and then from a spouse. I wanted my mom to have what I consider to be the perfect marriage. So, as a male being in that abusive circle, I set off to become that. I want to be the perfect husband so it can be done.

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And then it leads you through this rat race of you start going through a bunch of people that doesn't have that same interest at heart for you. So it leads to divorce and then you keep finding yourself in other relationships. Right. And for me, for marriages, because I want to prove this can be done. Nothing really about didn't want to be alone, but to prove it can be done. I finally found the right person. As you probably know, marriage is a marathon. You still have your ups and downs and your problems, but now I've been with my current wife for the last 22 years. We've been married 21 years come in August.

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And you just find that. We've been through a lot of stuff. We have arguments, we have ups and downs. But like you said, when you know that person is for you, you're not gonna go anywhere. You're not gonna find anything better than that. You've already tried that. Yeah. And that's what led you to this circle. I think to your point, part of it is establishing. And this was a really big piece of the puzzle for me when I ended up meeting my wife now, her name's Nicole. She and I met.

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as friends and she actually listened to the podcast and was really invested and wanted to, you know, get to know each other more because of that. And I was very clear, like, I'm just out of this really messed up situation, I'm not looking for anything, like, totally down to just be friends, she said the same thing. And what was really beautiful about how our relationship unfolded was that the week that we both sort of realized that there were feelings developing underneath everything was in therapy, I came to the realization that in feeling needed, I felt wanted.

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And that that was like what I had learned to hinge my value in a relationship on. And I never thought, never thought that it was important to ask myself, what are my wants, needs and deal breakers? And now when any of my friends or people that I know who are in like a rough spot in a relationship are questioning things, I'm like, this is not a list of pros cons, why you stay with somebody. This is a, are my needs being met?

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And if my needs aren't being met, am I okay with that? Like what sacrifices or compromises am I willing to make? But where do I have to draw the line to know that I can live the life that I'm meant to live in the way that feels right and true and safe to me? And it was such a revelation, David, because the list was long, I'm not gonna lie. But it was because it was rooted in what are my core values and where am I willing to be flexible and where am I not willing to be flexible? And...

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At the end of the day, when I look at my relationship with my ex, A, I often call it a situation now because I don't really think it was much of a relationship. And I also look at it and I think, you know, I didn't really like myself and who I was in that relationship, but I also didn't respect her. And when you don't respect somebody or you don't like somebody and you feel like you love them, that's a problem. Because that's not what love is. Love requires respect and love requires you to like that person.

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Now I give you my condolences because I know you said you lost your mom. I myself lost my mother's on September 4th of 2020. No pain like it. Yeah. I mean, I was very close to my mom. My mom and I were together. That was my rock. You know, we went through all the abuse together and stuff like that. So I know when my own mom died in my own personal life, and then on top of that, I turned 52 months later, I said, this life is too short.

34:01
I'm done. Here's my list of what I'm not putting up with. Get on board to get off. You know, my mom was gone. My I'm 50, my life is changing. I got to change everything else too, because I'm going to live the last part of my life as happy as possible, regardless of what anybody says. So in that point for you, when you lost your mom, was that finally the straw that said, this is the end, dude, I got to do something different. We got to change this. Yeah. It was huge. So that happened in February, 2021.

34:31
left Seattle and my ex was still out there. And I went to go stay with my sister. So my parents lived about three hours from where my sister lives. And so my parents' anniversary and my niece's birthday are February 20th. And my mom passed away the morning of February 21st. Then my nephew's first birthday was February 25th. And in between that's my brother-in-law's birthday. It was a very messed up week. And so I give that.

35:00
because it was so unexpected. Like, I mean, we had FaceTimed with my parents the night before. Um, it was my niece's birthday, so we're all celebrating. We were thinking we're gonna see them later. A, I'm really glad that I went home for my own reasons, um, because I wouldn't have seen my parents in two years had I not gone. So I wouldn't have seen my mom. I saw her twice, thankfully. I wish it had been more time. But the thing that really solidified it for me

35:30
was the fact that I was able to open up to them about what I was experiencing because my ex and her parents were just relentless about how I wasn't providing enough support through all these things that she was going through. And so, you know, my mom really stepped up. She really mama bared and we got to have some really important conversations that needed to be had honestly, probably for years. And I remember the last time that I saw her in person.

35:58
you know, I asked her for one more hug and I just said, thank you for being here for me. And the last thing that she, again, she said to me in person was like, we're always here for you, Nick. And I just, I remember the way her coat felt because it was winter and just like hearing the rustle of it and having those moments be so secure in my mind and in my body because I was able to be there in person really, I think also affected the way that I processed the loss and the importance of being connected to my family.

36:27
being where I needed to be in those moments. And so when that happened, you know, I called my ex, told her, she helped communicate to some people. I don't know what she said. She was terrible at communicating. And most of the time, because she was abusing substances, they would come out in like muddled, messy texts that maybe didn't make any sense anyway. She offered to come out. My family didn't particularly want her there, but I felt like I needed the support. And even if that was whatever she could provide.

36:56
And so it got really bad and very tense with my family during that time. They were rightfully concerned that she could be exposed to COVID or anything else. And, um, my sister and I kind of gotten some verbally knocked down drag outs about that and just feeling like she was in that moment, definitely trying to isolate me from my best friend as well. And kind of putting herself in the seat of like, she was the person that I needed and

37:23
I feel like she was lying to me a lot in those moments too, but I just couldn't process it because it was so insignificant honestly in the grand scheme of things. And so when my mom passed away and my ex left, what happened maybe like a couple days later, I couldn't get ahold of her. She had said to me, I'll do whatever you need, I'll be so supportive, et cetera, and couldn't get ahold of her. Her mom was out there with her and hours and hours passed.

37:50
text her mom calls me and says, oh, she's in the hospital. She fell. And then I see a video of her and she's got like a massive black eye and like this huge bruise on her head. And what I ended up finding out months later when I get the bill from the EM, the emergency vehicle was that the accident didn't happen the way that they said it did where she was working by the way with children still. It was something happened a couple of blocks away from our house.

38:18
which I can only imagine was some sort of assault associated with some sort of drug exchange. Again, there's nothing verified in that, but anything that I know tells me that was probably the case. I couldn't believe how every single time I needed support, there was just always something else that took away from that. And in this moment, it was unforgivable. It was that that really secured it for me. I remember saying I wanted a divorce before my mom even passed away, probably about a week or two prior to that. And then

38:46
Because I lost my mom, I was saying, you know, maybe I do want you to stay at the house for a little bit while I get situated again. I've been gone for three months. Like, I don't know, I'm probably gonna like need some support. I told her when I got back that I officially wanted a divorce. I don't actually want her to stay there. I've been telling her for months, like get yourself onto your own health insurance. Like, I'm not going to continue to support you. You've been exploiting me for money. You've done all these things. Like, I just, there's no reason why you need to be here. Like, for me to heal, I need to be away from you.

39:15
And that's what these last three months have taught me. And so that day when I told her that I left, I like took a video of myself by the water, just kind of being like, hey, you know, I'm in a better place. I feel like I'm gonna get back on track with the podcast, et cetera. And then I go back to my house and I see her, like so the way the house was, there was a kind of like a long hallway and there was a hallway shower. And by the way, for like months, probably over a year, we weren't even sharing a bedroom.

39:43
Partially she would say that was because of her migraines. I think a big part of it too is that like there really was an ick factor. It was like, I don't trust you. I don't feel safe with you. Like now granted, she probably could have been leaving in the middle of the night and I wouldn't have noticed because I'm also a heavy sleeper. So like there's a lot of things. The cameras were down when I got back. Like the external house cameras fell off conveniently enough, you know. So there were all these things that just like, you're lying to me. I know you're lying to me and I'm not delusional enough anymore to believe it. And so, nor do I feel like I love you.

40:12
So that's not blinding me. And so I, because I'd made peace with it, you know, the door's kind of cracked open. She's in the bathroom showering. And I see her phone, like on the edge of the counter, the door's barely cracked. So it was like right in my eye line. And there's no phone number. And there's just a long text that says something with our address at the bottom. And so I'm like, okay, well, I caught, my eye caught the address. I can read really quickly. So it, that's kind of like for better and for worse in life. Sometimes I'm like, I wish I didn't process that information.

40:41
but I saw her address and then I'm like, what the hell? So I grabbed the phone and I start looking at it and she's clearly telling somebody things about me that aren't true and trying to place herself in the role of victim. And so I grabbed the phone and I started to try to screenshot this and send them to myself. She comes out of the bathroom, chases me, she's in a towel. I, it was a bi-level house. So I run out the back door on the same level as the bathroom and go down a set of stairs that are on the deck. And

41:10
I run to the front of the gate and I'm left handed and I was trying to like maneuver things with the phone and then also get the door to the gate. Because I was running, my brain was not processing how to send things to myself. So I was just like, I just need to get out of this situation. She's chasing me. And so I'm like trying to unlock the door and she body slams me into the fence. I chuck the phone over the fence, get the fence door open. We both run for the phone. She's still in a towel, by the way.

41:38
And I just kind of dive on top of it. The towel falls off. She's screaming at me. I don't care who sees my tits, my ass. I don't care. Like, give me my phone. I pay for this phone. I have paid for everything in her life at that point. And the financials are like sort of inconsequential in the grand scheme of the freedom, but it was still a substantial amount of money in life that she was getting from me and benefits and all sorts of things. She wasn't working full-time for at least five years. And so...

42:06
you know, she'd become very reliant on me in that way. And by design, like I tried to help her get an Etsy shop started. I tried to help her like make money in other ways. It just, it didn't matter. She was gonna do what she was gonna do. And so now I've threatened that I'm going to uncover all of these lies that she's told me. So I grabbed the phone and I run back into the backyard. And as I'm running, my key fob must have fallen out of my pocket for my car because I found that the next day. I get kind of

42:36
cornered to the back of the yard, and there's a line of rocks that are very big and jagged that kind of create like a little bit of like an indentation behind it where there's like leaves and stuff gathering. And I only really knew where I was positioned because I did all of the yard work. And so I kind of like looked down and I see that there's like a jagged rock and she like pulls me to the ground and I tilt my body just enough to make sure that my head does not hit this rock.

43:02
And she pins me to the ground and is demanding that I give her my phone. And I'm just like, I'm not giving it to you. Like admit that you're lying to me. And she's like, I'm not lying to you. I was like, it's your drug dealer. You're talking to somebody about drugs, but something's happening, right? And she's like, that's not what it is. It's my lawyer. And I was like, okay, well, I have a lawyer too. And I just remember David, her looking at me in the eyes and like seeing this, because I'm on the ground. And so the memory is very vivid in that way where it's like this, I know that you have a lawyer too. And so when she does that,

43:30
she's still pushing on me. She pins me to the ground by my neck and is trying to get the phone and I have it in my left hand, I'm kind of holding it away and she's trying to get it. I make a sound to indicate that like I am struggling to breathe at that point and she lets go and basically tells me to stop faking it in so many words. And then when I don't let go of the phone and she's screaming at me to give it to her, she bites me above the knee once and I still hold onto the phone. And then, so I'm in a position where basically if you're sideways on the ground, you've got your arm up like this.

43:59
and then my knees up, so I'm kind of like crunched. And then she bites the back of my tricep so hard that I had to let go of the phone. There was just like no way around it. And so she grabs the phone, runs inside, and by the time I get inside, which can't be more than like a minute, she's already on the phone calling somebody, telling her that I assaulted them, or telling them that I assaulted her. At that point, I'm like, you need to get out of my house.

44:22
And I'm recording this, but I can't do anything with that recording because in Washington, you don't have the benefit of being able to record with only one party's approval in some states you do. So for anybody who's listening, look up the laws in your state and if you can record it, record it, record it, hide a camera, hide audio, put something somewhere like you have ways to manage that in certain states. I know Texas, for example, is like a single person consent state, but because I couldn't use any of that, that was sort of irrelevant. And she ends up.

44:51
saying to me that like, I need to let her stay there. How dare I tell her to leave? Where is she gonna go? What's she gonna do? I know that she has nowhere to go. At this point, I'm kind of like, I don't care. You just violently assaulted me. Like you gotta go. Like there's just no way. I've advocated for you thinking you were the victim of domestic violence and thinking that you were the victim in these other circumstances and you just.

45:16
like completely changed the game for me. Like this isn't just psychological, this is deeply, deeply aggressive, dangerous behavior. And so she basically only leaves because I tell her I will call the cops and she's like, go ahead, call the cops. And I called her bluff and I got the cops on the phone and she's like, fine, I'll go just hang up. And so I did, but what she didn't count on was me calling the cops the next morning. Because at that point, all I cared about was getting her out of the house. And...

45:45
She had always said to me, I can never go to jail. I never wanna go to jail. It was her biggest fear. And David, I'm gonna tell you something. After that moment, I realized why that information kept being fed to me. I can't go to jail. I'm so afraid of going to jail. You know who's afraid of going to jail? People who might go to jail. People who might be doing shit that would put them in jail. I mean, I'm afraid to go to jail, but it's not like a realistic fear that I have that I'm gonna end up there, knock on wood, right? But like when you're constantly

46:15
behaving in ways that could get you there. Yeah, I think you have a right to be afraid of that because what you're afraid of is being held accountable. And so she ended up getting picked up at like a motel somewhere a couple of days later because when she wanted to pick up her stuff for me, first of all, I had to immediately get a restraining order. So that was like the next several days of my life. Just the emotional and the physical trauma from all of it. I mean, it's like, I speak to it now and I'm thinking about it trying to sort of like

46:43
summarize it succinctly, but it's like there's no way to really recreate, I guess, thankfully, sort of like the level of intensity and the sheer volume of things that are happening in those moments when you've experienced something so catastrophic. And so basically she had some of her, I guess, drug dealer friends come try to get her stuff because she surely she knew the police were going to be there.

47:10
and I'm witnessing the interaction outside of my house between these people and the cops. And I'm like watching their hands because they've got masks on because it's COVID. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure that they just sold her out. Like, I think this is what just happened, right? And it's like, so there's no loyalty among thieves. As soon as their asses were on the line, they knew they had to give her up. And so all of that to say, what ultimately ended up happening after that extremely violent assault was...

47:37
I got the restraining order, but then she got out of jail on a letter of recognizance that our couples therapist wrote for her, citing me as the abuser, claiming that I tracked her phone, which she asked me to do because she was claiming to be dissociative. And so that's how I was finding out she was going to all the places that she was going to get drugs. The fact that I didn't want to let her drive because she had crashed my cars and totaled them multiple times and all of these things that I put the dash cam in the car, so I was monitoring monitoring her and I was being controlling. And I'm just like,

48:07
This therapist was not only a couples therapist to us originally, but she brought my ex on as a client to do EMDR therapy with her. And then after I witnessed that alleged assault that we spoke about earlier, she brought me on to do EMDR and flags were going up for me for a long time about the ethical questions that go along with that. And I was just so desperate for support that like, I didn't care how it was happening. And now I'm just like,

48:37
That's next level you triangulated that situation perfectly you brought Everything together to make it seem like I would somehow enact violence on you and do all these things to you when in reality like Seconds after you did it. You said to me, I know I get 50% Wow so The good thing is is eventually get away from this you go to therapy

49:05
Tell us how therapy helped you to not only improve your relationship with yourself, but was able to give you the tools to move on and beyond your abuse relationship. Yeah, great question. And thank you for rounding out with that because it is honestly the most instrumental thing for me on my healing journey. I was really lucky that I was so active in learning how to heal from trauma in an effort to help my ex.

49:33
because it equipped me with a lot of the tools that I needed to learn for myself. And so I was very lucky that I was also simultaneously seeing my own independent therapist who has very, very good ethical guidelines and would not allow me to bring my ex into the situation. She was like, I'm not here to side with you. I'm your objective health provider. Like that's who I need to be for you early on in that relationship. And

50:00
She's just been absolutely phenomenal in terms of the support that she offers, but also giving me the space and understanding that that collision of losing my mom and leaving my ex was truly the pinnacle of what I feared. Losing my mom was always my biggest fear. Just since I was a child, massive, massive fear of losing my mom. Both my parents, but there was something in my gut that always made me sense that fear of loss with my mom in a different way. And so when I had to share that with her.

50:29
She was also the only other person who was getting this information about what was happening in every situation I just described to you, and again, the ones I didn't mention. So I'd go in like week after week, sometimes twice a week and be like, my life is exploding, things are falling apart. I'm not okay. But then I'd have to go to work and function as if my life is not in shambles. And so the thing that therapy did for me, a couple of things, first of all, just having the space, having the space where you go, you trust somebody, there's no judgment and you're there

50:58
they want to help you is so important and not every therapist is right for you. So being patient and understanding of what you need is important. Go in with a desired point of attention, I guess in what you want to focus on first so you know that that person's qualified to help you with that. I find that a lot of people sort of just pick a therapist especially if it's because insurance covers it, right? Do your due diligence, find somebody that fits the bill for what you need help with. And the other thing is that

51:27
It showed me the importance of the other things that we need to do to ground ourselves when we're dealing with trauma. So meditation, gratitude in particular, is super important for me. The most life-changing advice that I got from my therapist, and she's given amazing advice in so many ways, but the thing that has driven the most tangible change in my life was the moment that she said to me, gratitude and anxiety can't exist at the same time.

51:56
So when you're feeling anxious about something, because this was when I was feeling so unbelievably hypervigilant, I would say it felt like I had just something clenched around my heart. I was 35 at the time, and I was like, I'm gonna have a heart attack. I can tell physically my body is telling me that I'm not okay. And she said, when you're feeling anxious, just start listing things that you're grateful for. It can be the smallest thing. I'm grateful for the sunglasses for keeping the sun out of my eyes. I'm grateful for this chair that I'm sitting on, so I don't have to sit on the floor, and keep listing them. Because...

52:25
you will get yourself out of the negative thought pattern and into a thought pattern of gratitude. It's become such a habit for me now that I live in a state of consistent gratitude as much as one can. Obviously every moment's not a moment that we're grateful for, but I think coming back to those things and having the intention to find the good amidst the challenges, to find the beauty amidst the pain is really the thing that kept me going. And...

52:54
the human connection aspect of it, doing the podcast. I started the podcast right after that situation where I'd found my ex originally and how traumatic that was. And it was like hearing other people's stories brought me to a place of being able to be more vulnerable, being able to be less shameful about what I experienced and what I tolerated and more open in therapy because I was able to identify things in my own story through the lens of conversations I'd had with other people about theirs.

53:24
Because while the circumstances weren't identical, a lot of the feelings that we have when we've survived trauma are the same. The shame, the guilt, the anxiety. And then on the flip side of that, when you're through the hardest parts, the gratitude, the true connection, and the faith and trust that we can have in ourselves and in other people, those combination of things are just the architecture, I think, of one's healing journey and the way that they can come together.

53:54
when we're very intentional is quite magical. I think, you know, psychology is kind of textbook in certain ways, but then there are these little moments that sort of sneak in and you notice like when your subconscious changes that you have now fundamentally changed who you are and how you show up in the world. And to be able to bring that to a conversation like this or to any other aspect of my life, I think has been just really a gift on the other side of all the bad things that happened.

54:23
I'm glad that we are both podcasters that's went through some stuff because that gives clarity to the next thing I'm going to say, which is when I started true crime and authors, I had another show before I call it a day with crime. True crime and authors before it turned to true crime, author, story, and people, I wanted to continue podcasting after my oldest daughter had to quit because it was something that my mom always enjoyed me doing. And I found that it was also very therapeutic to me because

54:52
maybe as twisted as this sound, but when I sit behind this microphone and I tell you a true crime story, when I'm done in the back of my mind, I look and say, man, my life really isn't that bad. You know, this person I just talked about went through X, Y, and Z. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, my mom is really proud of me. My show launched September 5th of last year, 2022. My mom passed September 4th. And when I did Extraordinary People Leg, it was because of people like you.

55:22
I went through some trauma myself, but I'm like, what if I can expose the world to these stories that everybody says we make up? I think when I went back, if you haven't heard this episode yet, I went back and we said, I changed my mind about the Casey Anthony case, um, because they had released a documentary called Casey Anthony, where the truth lies on HBO. And I went back and we looked at that in a different lens and she started talking about abuse and the one thing that you know, that you can't change from a person

55:52
They can be ashy about anything else, but the body language and the way that it's said and intonation and how many times they've told this gives you credence to if that person's lying or not. In looking at her and just anxiety that she was expressing what George had did to her and things that she was saying on that episode, I said, you can lie about many things in case he was a big liar. But I'm in the belief that people who have been through any type of abuse or trauma, especially sexually,

56:20
or being beat up, don't make that stuff up because it's embarrassing to us to even tell you that. We feel ashamed as a man saying that I was actually raped by my ex-wife and by a father, that messes with me emotionally, psychologically, physically. Do you find when you started Who the Fuck Park has that it became therapeutic to you that you have learned more stories about

56:47
things that people do like you have and you don't feel quite as alone as you did before you started in 2019. Oh my gosh, absolutely. First and foremost, thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing that. And yeah, it was really interesting because I started with, honestly, it's why I started going to therapy is because I felt like I lacked fulfillment and I wasn't feeling a sense of purpose with my tech work. And so the...

57:17
immense amount of gratitude that I have for the fact that I went for that and then I was in it and with somebody that I trusted that I could expose like the other parts of my life that were really unraveling quite quickly and aggressively in those aspects with my ex, it was a lifeline for me having the podcast. It saved me in a lot of ways, especially during COVID because right before COVID happened, I actually went on a solo trip by myself to Maui.

57:45
And because all of this stuff had happened with my ex, and I'm like, I can't deal with this. I knew I needed to get divorced once I came back. But then COVID, like that day, literally, not even kidding, the town that I moved to, Kirkland, Washington, is where that first case was announced. And so a lot of other messy things started happening in my head. I started to believe that the relationship was healthy. It was good, all of these things, right? And so I think I was able to convince myself that it wasn't as bad as it was because

58:15
I was forming connections with people through my podcast. So I wasn't as aware that the connection that I was seeking in this relationship that I was sustaining was non-existent or even worse, toxic, terrible, because I was filling my cup by engaging in these really meaningful conversations with other people who were showing me the power of healing, who were showing me what happens when you prioritize yourself, who showed me that the people who had

58:44
tried to commit suicide or thought about it or felt like they were in the last moments of their life or thought they would never escape these horrible circumstances, not only did survive that to share it, that they were vulnerable enough and wanting to share that, but the reason that they're doing it is exactly what you said and exactly why I'm doing what I'm doing is because you know that in sharing your story, somebody else will hear that and it will help. And whether that is one person, 50 people, a thousand people, a million people, like...

59:13
Knowing what I experienced, if I were just the one person that were impacted by it, I would be so grateful that it was one person. So I think it's beyond therapeutic in a lot of ways. Now I think having a lot of therapy also helps with that. In that like approaching those conversations from a place of it's not as triggering as it used to be for me because early on it was hard for me to navigate conversations around sexual assault and things like that that felt too close.

59:41
But now I'm definitely in a place of just really offering the platform and being an active listener and sharing space so people have a place where they can, you know, give their story and tell it their way. Because I think that part's really important too. You and I are a lot alike because my whole thing is why I do this podcast is because I want to change the world one listener at a time. I want to make people aware of...

01:00:10
what's going on in the world. And I'm going to always give you my honest, raw truth, regardless of what you feel or I'm not afraid to be canceled, right? That's what we need in life. And I appreciate you being here today because it further shows me, right? I'm not alone. I never go over my stats. I have to be honest. I really don't look at them at the end of my year of my first season. I gave you every other step of that, because if only one person listens to this show.

01:00:38
If one person listens to me and Nikki today, and it changed their life, I've done my job. I don't need a million people to, that would be nice. But if I don't have a million people listen to my show, if that one person got something out of that, then I've done my job. And that's how I feel about that. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And I have to say, my wife pointed out to me this thing that I do, so I'm gonna offer this now. I...

01:01:05
didn't realize that whenever I'm about to pay a compliment to somebody, I like to say, can I just say, so I'm giving you a can I just say moment right now, David. Can I just say that I really appreciate how intentional you are with your questions and how much space you gave me to share my story here. I love your energy and having listened to your other episodes and just sort of getting to know you a bit more on this, through this conversation.

01:01:34
You have such a skill and something that a lot of people have said to me in my time podcasting is that I help really make people feel at ease and I don't think I necessarily understood that because I'm on your side of things most of the time so I feel probably a little bit more at ease than guests do a lot of the time. I understand what they're saying now like this was so easy to share a very difficult topic and so thank you for

01:02:00
creating the space and the platform for me to share that and feel so comfortable doing so you're really talented at what you do. And I appreciate that. I appreciate you for saying that. Thank you for coming on. After I read about you, I really wanted you on the show to share your story. And I'm just grateful that you chose to come on the show and trust me enough to be able to have this very vulnerable conversation. So I totally appreciate that. Absolutely. And you're welcome on Who the Fuck Anytime.

01:02:27
Looking forward to it. Cause I think I would love to appear in your show. That'd be my honor, my pleasure to do so. What do you want people to take away from Nikki LaCroche's story today? The biggest thing is prioritize yourself and trust yourself. It's not always easy. And a lot of times people can try to convince you that you shouldn't, but I do believe that we know at our core what is okay and what is not okay for us. And so.

01:02:55
If you are feeling like you need support, definitely seek that out, whether that's through therapy, friends, family, but don't feel like you have to hold it in. The thing that I wish I had done sooner was opening up to the people in my life about the circumstances that I was in, because I do think that I could have probably gotten to a place where I was ready to leave sooner, but also don't hold yourself, you know, don't.

01:03:20
hold yourself in shame for not leaving sooner either, because as one of my good friends and a guest of mine said to me, you left when you could. And I think that that's something that's also really important to remember. We do the best we can with what we have, where we are. And so just, you know, listen to yourself and believe that you know best. Um, obviously, um, in those types of circumstances and making sure that at the end of the day, you're happy because that does really matter. Well, Nikki, I think you were being on the show today. It was my honor and pleasure to share the mic with you.

01:03:50
I have learned a lot. It's phenomenal that the more I do this, the more things I learn. And you have definitely added to my learning tree today. And I look forward to coming to your show and look forward to talking to you again. So I really appreciate it. So thank you for coming on. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful.

01:04:11
All right, guys, that was the incredible Nikki La Crochet. You can check out her show, the Who the Fuck podcast on Spotify, YouTube, Apple podcast, and anywhere you get your podcast, please make sure you go check out her show. She's doing some incredible things over there and you will not be sorry. You can also find out more about Nikki on my website, right? Attached to her episode would be everything you need to know.

01:04:39
including her social handles and those will also be linked in the show notes of this episode. So we thank you for tuning in today. We hope that you've taken away something from this. If you are in a domestic abusive relationship or an abusive relationship of any kind, you will find resources of who to reach out to in my show notes as well. So I hope that you guys are being great to each other, to yourselves, and taking care and always remember...

01:05:09
always stay humble. An act of kindness can make someone's day. A little love and compassion can go a long way. And remember that there is an extraordinary person in all of us. I'll catch you guys in the next one.

01:05:28
Don't forget to rate, comment, and subscribe. Join us on social media. One link to the link tree has it all. Feel free to drop us a line at truecrimeandauthors at gmail.com. Cover art and logo designed by Arslin. Sound mixing and editing by David McClam. Intro script by Sophie Wilde and David McClam. Theme music, legendary, by New Alchemist. Introduction and ending credits by Jackie Voice.

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